EPS Beads Vs. 2 Part Foam

[Thomas K]

So its a toss up between using the EPS beads and the 2 part foam. the EPS beads are hard to find, and everyone whos seems to use these keeps their source a great big secret! i am weary about using the 2 part foam, with having to buy release agents and all that, but then on the other hand, you have to boil the EPS beads to get them to work. i feel like its a toss up and would really appreciate some more information from people who have used both or either! i plan on using the Bluebill head and body mold from R&R sports ( they no longer carry the EPS beads, its a shame ) i would like to cast a few dozen diver ducks, bluebills and redheads, maybe get a head mold also for canvasbacks, ringnecks and goldeneye, maybe even buffleheads. anyways, thanks for the help!

-Thomas K

[Don Fry]

i have used both, if i remember right, i could get about 18 decoys out of a gallon (2)  of 2 part- 4 lb. i get 48 + decoys out of a 50 lb barrel of eps. if i screw up a decoy using eps i just grind it up and reuse it so there is little waste. if you are using only one mold the eps is a long process..

here is a source of eps beads

Randy Dickerson <rdickerson@polysource.com

the cost of eps
115.00 /50 lbs of beads
13.00 cost of barrell
48.00 freight

hope this helps you out

[Thomas K]

Thanks don! In your opinion, which one produced the better end-product? It seems to me like degreasing the eps blocks would be easier than degreasing the 2 part foam blocks. i might also just stick with carving them from foam! i am not very good at carving heads, and buying them can get expensive, that is why i was thinking of molding my own. maybe i will carve my own bodys and mold my own heads! now thats an idear!

Also don, if you could give me a rough estimate, which one of the two methods would be the most cost effective way of going?

I have found this source for "Virgin Expandable Polystyrene" im not sure if this is the correct product. they told me the size of the beads was 1/8th". they have yet to get back to me about the weight of "9 cubic feet" of the EPS. anyone have any information on this product?
http://foamerica.biz/virgin-expandable-polystyrene-eps-beads-9c.html

Thanks again


-Thomas K

[Derek and Xena]

If you use the eps you have to burlap them 'cause they're soft.  With the pour foam you can use the 8lb. stuff and it's as hard as pine(they say). 

I also have a bluebill body and head mold(DU) and I am using 4lb. US Composites pour foam for the bodies and 8lb. with a 16 penny nail in the bill for the heads.  They seem pretty tough to me, but you couldn't throw 'em around like plastic ones 'cause they will dent.  I'm planning on getting some canvas bags with the individual slots and try and be careful with 'em when I hunt. 

[Thomas K]

from what i have read, if the EPS are done right you get a hard shell around the block. i guess this is done using vegetable oil as a release agent. i know that if i mold the decoys, i do not want to burlap them. so i may have to look into using the 2 part foam. the more i think about it the more i come to the conclusion that i want to mold the heads and carve the bodys using some sort of a hot wire cutter and template/jigs. if i do mold my own heads, i will use the 2 part foam, in probably 16 or 8lb . that way i do not have to order the large quantities of EPS beads. it will also save me burlapping them!

thanks for all the input. going to give this some more thought, season is getting awfully close and i still have alot of work to do!

-Thomas

[Derek and Xena]

No matter what you use as a release agent, you still have to sand it all off or the paint will bubble and peel off, so you'd lose your "hard shell" by the time you sanded off all the vegetable oil that soaked into the foam.  I had to sand off all the "skin" on mine but with the pour foam, it is the same density throughout so you don't need the hard shell.  I used 2 coats of spar urethane after sanding, then 2 coats of kilz2, then all acrylics, and finally testors dull cote.

[Don Fry]

Thomas:

i guess it is personnal preference as far as 2 part vs eps. i prefer the eps. it ends up out of the mold with a hard skin, i  wet and dry with 220 grit and a soapy solution of dawn. i do not sand the hard coat off, but i do sand the whole decoy, i then kilz it and put 2 layers of cork dust on it along with 2 coats of latex paint. i have had a decoy in my fish pond for 31 days and there is no seperation or soft places.
as far as cost effective, eps is 176.00 for 50 lbs to my door. i can get over 48 decoys out of 50 lbs. the 4 lb 2 part is 62.00 + freight, if i remember right i get 16 to 18 decoys out of that, so that is about equal.
with the 2 part you will need a good paintable mold release, mixing cups, measuring cups.
with the eps you will need a burner, propane, plus a barrel.
i used to burlap my decoys but have now changed to the cork dust method. pros are lighter in weight, easier to do, less overhead, no glare,
the cons with the cork dust is , they are not as indestructable as the burlap,
again it gets down to personnal preference.
oh yeah the eps that i use is a medium weight eps, not the beer cooler stuff, it the same stuff that is used in crash helmets, i think from my experience that it is denser than 4 lb 2 part.

[Larry B]

Having used both I prefer EPS over 2 part foam.. My Brother and I bought a used Propane gas range. My youngest Son is a sheet metal foreman. He works with Stainless Steel 95% of the time. He welded a pot the size of the range top, 12" deep. We run 6 DU molds at the same time. These are the Bluebill suc-bottom models. We have found that CORN OIL(what Art Ladehoff, originator of Decoys Unlimited recommends) is far superior to plain vegetable oil. Heavier and more sticky, like comparing 10W to 30W motor oil. Bodies pop out easier, and they have a harder finish. Rasp the parting lines close, finsh with it and decoy with 3M Sandblaster 100 medium grit sandpaper. You only have too take of the glaze left from the corn oil. Don't sand through the hard outer surface. Once we get the water boiling we can turn off 2 of the 4 burners. After some trial and error, we have found 20 minutes max for bodies, and 10 for heads. Cooling times for both are 10 air, and 10 water. We can run 3-4 dozen a day, at a nice pace. When the bodies come out of the cooker, 1 Redhead, 1 Goldeneye, 2 Bluebill, 2 Bufflehead, 2 regular size Canvasback, and 1 Magnum Canvasback head molds go in while we remove finished bodies and prepare the body molds for the next batch. We have found when oiling the molds use an oil soaked rag to apply the corn oil. Beads that are swimming in oil don't expand well at all. Hope this helps. I'll see if we can post some pictures of our decoys.

[Don Fry]

Larry

what eps beads are you using to get the 20 minute cook time.?

[Larry B]

Don, I'll ask my Brother tomorrow and let you know.

[Larry B]

Don,

My Brother said they are a 4# density white bead. They are small. We use exactly 1# per body. We don't prefoam, the beads. Never could figure out how to do it. The finished decoy was junk, so we just use raw beads. Hope this helps.

Larry

[Don Fry]

thanks larry,  i use a medium weight eps from polysource. just wondering about the 20 miinute cook time.

again thanks.

you don't have a #12 clinton mold for sale do you??

[Larry B]

Sorry Don no mold.